Inside France’s Antisemitism Crisis with Senator Lévi

_THE INTERVIEW_

Ari: You recently passed a law about antisemitism. Can you talk about it?

Sen. Lévi: This law came about because of antisemitic incidents that happened last year. At Sciences Po University — the Faculty of Sciences — there was a Jewish student who was actually banned from going to class just because she was Jewish.

After that happened, we got the Senate to launch an investigation to really dig into what's going on with antisemitism at French universities. We finished that up, put out a report, and now we've got these proposals to fight antisemitism in higher education. We drafted a bill that both the National Assembly and Senate voted on.

But here's the thing — when the text went from the Senate to the National Assembly, they changed it. So now we've got to hammer out an agreement between the National Assembly and the Senate today to get a final version everyone can live with.

Ari: How will legislation solve this issue?

Sen. Lévi: The law will enable us to first appoint antisemitism coordinators at all universities. It will also empower university presidents to convene disciplinary councils for incidents that may be related to antisemitic acts.

Previously, disciplinary councils could only be convened for cases involving exam fraud, rule violations, or matters affecting the institution's reputation.

Ari: There's going to be someone overseeing the incidents on campus?

Sen. Lévi: Mm-hmm.

Ari: What is the current status of antisemitism in universities? How bad is it?

Sen. Lévi: Yes, today in universities, you have almost 1,700 cases a year. What we're seeing is an explosion of antisemitism cases, with very few disciplinary councils being convened.

But beyond that, you also have many of our Jewish fellow citizens who don't dare to report the incidents they've experienced — whether it's an antisemitic insult or gesture — they don't dare to report it because they're afraid.

Ari: In America, we've also seen similar increases in antisemitic incidents at universities. But when we look at who's behind it, first of all, a lot of them are just regular, liberal Americans.

But there are also a lot of foreign students — Arab students and Muslim students — who are also driving this forward. Whatever countries they're coming from, they're bringing these attitudes into the universities and making it worse. Is it similar here?

Sen. Lévi: In French universities, we teach about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And it's how this Israeli-Palestinian conflict gets poorly explained to students that's causing antisemitic acts. There's this assumption that Jewish students who come to class are all Netanyahu supporters, which just isn't the case.

Ari: That's classic antisemitism. They see some Jews somewhere doing something, and they blame it on the whole group.

Sen. Lévi: That's exactly it. We're dealing with atmospheric antisemitism, provoked by the far left among us, who talk all day long about what's happening in Gaza without actually knowing what's really going on there.

They're saying that Jews are there to exterminate the Gazan population, that they're committing genocide — which isn't true, it's not genocide. And so they're putting these ideas into students' minds, and today it means Jewish students are afraid to come to class because they're afraid of being attacked.

You have 9 out of 10 students saying they've been victims of antisemitic aggression. Some are changing their names just to attend class, because they're scared.

And you have entire universities where there isn't a single Jewish student. There are universities where Jews simply aren't going to school anymore. In Toulouse, for example, there are no more Jewish students.

They're afraid of being attacked every time they go to campus. They have to cross through Palestinian protests, and people ask them if they support our government. And behind it is this question: Do you support Netanyahu?

Ari: How does the influx of immigrants into Paris play a role here?

Sen. Lévi: Today, the far left is constantly trying to court the Muslim vote. So all day long, they defend the Palestinians.

Most of the time, they don't even know where Palestine is, by the way. They don't even know about the West Bank. They have no idea, but they defend Palestinians all day. It's a strategy set up by France Insoumise.

It's a strategy — a political strategy. So they spend their days supporting the so-called Palestinians, the poor people of Gaza, and saying that it's the Jews' fault that there were attacks. They claim it's the Jewish people who provoked Hamas, and that Hamas was justified in attacking on October 7.

They're saying it's no surprise that Gazans are mistreated. Basically, they think Hamas did the right thing by attacking on October 7. Some even go so far as to say that Hamas isn't a terrorist organization.

Ari: You're seeing political parties catering to immigrants, and as a byproduct, ramping up anti-Israel sentiment, which drives antisemitism as well.

Sen. Lévi: I think that today, antisemitism is being fueled by political parties. In the past, it was the far right. Now it's the far left that has taken over and turned it into a political weapon.

The Muslim community is growing in France, and they're telling Muslims that if they vote for them, it will help them win elections. And that's how they'll boost their voter turnout.

It's about the power of money, the power of media. It's calculated.

Ari: Most of these immigrants that are in the country now, they're voting left. Are left-wing parties taking over?

Sen. Lévi: You have both far left and far right, because there's also a far right. So it's not the same thing.

The far right vote comes more from the working class, while the far left gets more support from Muslims in France, who tend to vote far left. Why? Because the far left is engaged, as I told you, in defending the Palestinians, and they're willing to lie, by the way, to say that it's the Israeli government's fault — that Israel should be dismantled.

They say it's a nation that practices apartheid, like South Africa, and this contributes to creating both antisemitism and anti-Zionism.

Ari: How big of a problem do you think antisemitism is in France? Are there other, more pressing issues?

Sen. Lévi: It's the most important thing right now. Today, I want this legislation to be passed quickly so that Jewish students can feel protected.

It's not my only legislative priority today. My goal is — the university year ends next month, and I want the measures we've put in this law to be ready for the next academic year so that university presidents can say, "We've established legislation, we've created a law that will protect you. Don't be afraid to come to class."

We're giving university presidents the power to train students and faculty about antisemitism, and to train members of disciplinary councils so they're capable of determining appropriate sanctions for antisemitic acts.

Ari: You're talking a lot about antisemitism in the universities. Let's broaden the conversation for a moment.

When I told people, specifically in the Jewish community, that I was going to Paris, they were worried that it wasn't safe. I don't know how many places I've traveled to where people say, "Don't wear your yarmulke.”

So there's seemingly — and you can tell me if this is a wrong perception — but there's the perception that in Paris it's just dangerous in general. Do you think that's as big of a problem as they say?

Sen. Lévi: Today, with this law, we're not going to solve all the problems — we're not necessarily going to eliminate antisemitism altogether. But we are going to provide tools to fight antisemitic acts, to allow Jewish students not to be afraid to come to class.

You have the right to wear a kippah, but there are places in Paris where it's better to be careful when walking around. But that's everywhere in the world.

I mean, if you go to New York, if you go to the Bronx, in some rough neighborhoods, you can get attacked because there are more dangerous places than others. But in Paris, you can walk around. You see people walking in the street with a kippah.

Ari: How do you think that France has changed since October 7?

Sen. Lévi: For Jews in France, life is no longer the same. It's just not the same anymore.

The Jewish students who came to testify before me are being attacked — they're afraid to go to class. They're being attacked because people tell them, "It's your fault, it's your people's fault that there were attacks because you provoked it — you're the ones who provoked this."

There are a lot of stereotypes being spread, and a lot of escalating aggression. I've seen many testimonies from young people who tell me they're very afraid of going to campus today because they're afraid of being attacked, they're scared of being harassed.

And today, we've completely forgotten about October 7. Today, we only talk about the Gaza war. That's it. We don't talk about the hostages anymore. There are some media outlets that talk about the hostages, but not many. As if we had forgotten about the hostages entirely.

And today it's the fault of Jews in France — what's happening over there — we're somehow responsible for it. Simply because of the military response of the Israeli government in Gaza.

And in the United States, in all the big universities, we had exactly the same phenomenon, where Jewish students were afraid to go to class too. They were afraid because there were pro-Gaza, pro-Palestinian protests that were very violent. The police had to intervene.

They blame Netanyahu's government, and today, assume that all Jews in France support Netanyahu. Which just isn't true.

Ari: How does your party feel about Israel and what you're trying to accomplish?

Sen. Lévi: Until two or three months ago, there was total support. I don't belong to a political party — I'm center-right. But the Senate, for example, has always been strongly supportive of Israel.

And today, there are many more critical messages toward Israel because the government has announced that there will be a halt to hostilities, to military operations. And in France, yes, I mean, we're starting to have parliamentarians who are beginning to say, "Enough is enough, Israel must stop, or we'll start thinking about sanctions against Israel."

Ari: President Macron said he's going to have a meeting in Saudi Arabia and is going to be talking about establishing a Palestinian state. What are your thoughts on that? It sounds very much against Israel, that kind of move.

Sen. Lévi: Why is Macron doing this? Because he's under pressure to say it's time for France to condemn the military operation. And the left — they're part of his own party, his own deputies — they're saying Netanyahu is doing whatever he wants, we need to create a second state so Gazans and Palestinians can live in peace.

But here's the problem — he doesn't tell us: has Hamas been completely wiped out? What political party is going to be Israel's partner at the negotiating table? Israel's the only democracy in the region, so who are they supposed to talk to? Are we going to have real democratic elections in Palestine?

It's not easy to create a Palestinian state. First, you need to free the hostages. All of them. Second, Hamas has to be completely eliminated. Third, everyone who hasn't already needs to recognize that Israel has a right to exist. And fourth, you need genuine democratic elections in Palestine.

Ari: In the UK, Starmer acknowledged that immigration was a mistake, and they're trying to fix it. Is France going to get to that point, or is it different, and why?

Sen. Lévi: If we don't do anything? Yeah, absolutely, it's possible. If we don't put limits in place, if we don't create rules to control immigration—

Ari: Is anyone trying to do anything about it?

Sen. Lévi: We'd like to, but we don't have a majority. Right now, we have a government that doesn't have a majority. So they can't for two years — we're going to be stuck for two years.

Ari: Will immigration decide the next election?

Sen. Lévi: It's going to be very complicated. We'll try to pass laws, but since there's no majority in the National Assembly, we can't get anything through.

We tried to pass a law against immigration, to fight illegal immigration specifically. We had a hell of a time getting it passed. And then we have a constitutional council that struck it down, because everything has to go through the council.

And we also want to make it harder to get French citizenship — tougher criteria. Before you can work, you have to show that you're integrated into the country, that you speak the language, that you respect the values of the Republic.

Because right now we're giving aid to people who don't want to learn French, they don't respect the values of the Republic. So the Interior Minister wanted to tighten the requirements for citizenship and for coming to France.

We made laws, but we couldn't get them through. We couldn't, since we don't have a majority. If we want to challenge the government, we have to be careful about what we vote on. I don't want there to be a vote of no confidence. The government fell in December and could fall again.

That's why I want to get my antisemitism law passed as quickly as possible, in case the government gets toppled.